Hello All!I'll tell you right now, I'm sorry.
Experience like 10 years already, I always had
front-wheel drive cars, and that's enough,
that the city is not cleaned, and in the winter in the city,
just do not pass, I decided to buy a jeep or SUV,
the choice fell on the 1997 Toyota RAV4. with 4WD.
Well, I traveled on it in the summer, very happy with it
that you can climb almost everywhere on it, and for
families and cottages just right. Cool car.And then winter came...
Well, I prepared for the winter (fluid, battery, and suspension)
the car itself, the tires also changed to winter,
though not studded on Michelin Alpine 4x4 (215/70/R16).
In our city, the first snow and ice, as always,
How disaster utilities, no snow
waited and did not know, in the evening the night was heavy rain,
then it began to snow, in the morning there were already 10-15 cm of snow,
and at the same time, already frozen, and there was ice below.
I needed to go to the dacha in the morning with my mother-in-law, well, I tore the car off
from the snow, started, drove off, well, the roads, as always, have not been removed,
on bends, ice blocks, and on the road an ice slide
with comb. We are not we, we are in a jeep, I am glad that the car,
so good, he rides through the snowdrifts, and goes through the snowy porridge,
Well, class car, supper. We left the city, well, as always,
out of habit with front-wheel drive, I fly 70 km / h, and I don’t see
that on the road outside the city the wind is strong and icy and crusty.
Well, okay, I’m flying, and at some point during the detour, I don’t remember what,
the car starts to turn (or drifting), I'm out of habit
with front-wheel drive, I press the gas pedal, I think, somehow get out
from this drifting, and nothing works, ahead of me,
on the left lane, cars and a regular groove, well, I think, only
would not fit in, figs with him that I will cure for the road,
there snowdrifts, I'll slow down about them. Here in these thoughts,
I turn the steering wheel different sides trying to stabilize
car movement, and get out of drifting, get away from cars,
then I see that I am being carried to the regular groove, drove,
he also sees that he carries me sideways to him, we leave,
from each other, thank God, they left, while I was carried to him,
it dawned on me that you need to slow down the engine, i.e. on the gas pedal
you can not press in this situation. It all happened
in some 1-2 sec. The mother-in-law sat next to me, didn't say anything,
I said to myself, well, fuck him, got adrenaline,
I'll go back carefully, I've had enough of this drifting
With first snow.
One upset that I did not notice the number of the flight groove,
to drive up to apologize to him, and as a token of gratitude
give a bottle.Now questions:
- What style of driving should be and is needed at a constant full
drive?
- And what to do to avoid the turntable machine
on snowy road with ice? I myself understand that not to fly,
and if he was driving carefully, and got that the car started spinning.
- Explain, I have never had a rear-wheel drive car,
driving style in the rear is almost the same as in a constant
all-wheel drive?
- What is the best way to get out of an unintentional skid in a 4WD car?
Just take your foot off the gas pedal and brake the engine?
- And yet, I realized that for all-wheel drive and to drive outside the city,
you need studded tires. Thorns, I think give less chance to
the car spun, and it would have been thrown out of the lane.P.S: I understand that I did the wrong thing, I want to,
so that this does not happen, here are the questions.Thank you...
----
With respect, Nicholai
Toyota RAV4 (left hand drive), 1997 onwards, 3S-FE, manual transmission
Is it possible to drive in winter on all-wheel drive, on the transfer case NP231 (without center differential)
Distribution 231st. Tell me, pliz, is it possible to drive all-wheel drive in winter, say, on the highway (eg Moscow-Peter)? The site says that "you can't race on a snowy highway...", however, I heard the opinion that this applies only (!) to dry and hard surfaces, but not to slippery, snowy, etc. The question is relevant, because. there are plans to go to Finland in winter.
Answer 1
Yes this is correct. BUT! There is no differential in the 231 transfer case, so driving 4H at high speed is simply dangerous. Yes, and the load on the transmission turns out to be too large - all the crosses start to work for wear.
I will try to give universal advice about: it is POSSIBLE to drive on a full drive 231 handouts, but with reasonable restrictions.
1. DO NOT drive faster than 80 km/h - dangerous!
2. DO NOT drive on dry hard surfaces - it is harmful to the transmission!
3. DO NOT drive on mixed (snow / asphalt) with slipping - you will definitely tear something or spin the car!
Good luck.
Sasha.
Answer 2
I only use 4WD in a terrible garbage dump, and then at speeds up to 40 km / h. And on Nakkapilite on a winter track, it’s not bad with 2WD either.
Can humans eat all mushrooms?
Answer: All, but some only once in a lifetime.
I do not recommend for sim.
Could someone clearly and in a form accessible to the new camera describe the advantages and disadvantages of 231 and 242. I re-read almost the entire FAK - I could not decide (Specifically: does he drive rear wheel drive(ZP) (for example, as in the classics), is it stable to move on the ZP in speed mode, the probability of skidding at parttime/fulltime, etc.).
Answer 1
As a person who personally replaced 231 with 242 on Chirka, I’ll say this. Personally, it was frankly inconvenient for me to ride with the 231st transfer case on the rear wheel drive in winter. In the city, with an average snow cover of the roads, it was frankly ashamed of his teal when, when starting off, he wagged his ass like the last nedoprivod. At the entrance to the turn it was dumb, because I was afraid to catch the neighbors downstream, leaving to the side with my ass. Turning on the mode Part Time on the 231st, it only partially saved, because if it was possible to get under way from a place in this mode, it was possible to get under way normally and not to drive fast in a straight line, but still it was possible, then when entering a turn on snow covered road almost killed himself once. The fact is that in the Part-Time mode, with a more or less strong turn of the steering wheel, due to the lack of an interaxle diff, the front wheels SIMPLY STOP ROTATING AND GO SWITCHING. And if somewhere in shit at a speed of 3 km / h it’s not scary, then in winter it’s ordinary road, an attempt to go through a 90-degree turn at a speed greater than 10 km / h will end with the layout of the car on something standing on the outer radius of this very turn. And all due to the fact that the car flies into a turn with the front wheels locked and on a slippery road it becomes simply uncontrollable. I was lucky at one time, and there was just a snowdrift ....
So, of course, you can listen to people who say that the 231st handout is a panacea for any weather conditions, but I also talk about what I know, and I declare responsibly: I AM ABSOLUTELY SATISFIED WITH THE 242nd razdatka and I WAS VERY INCOMFORTABLE TO RIDE THE 231st .
Today, after replacing 231 with 242, driving a teal in the winter in Full-Time mode is a pleasure. On snow, the car goes like on asphalt and prescribes turns as Jeep should prescribe. :)
All the pleasure of replacing the handouts resulted in me 350 USD (300 - used handout + 50 transfers). IMHO Not so expensive for the pleasure of feeling like a person on winter road.
AndrewSlk, January 31, 2005
Answer 2
Left Moscow on Tuesday at 17:00 Returned yesterday afternoon. The first 2 days of the party time did not turn off at all. Drove about 700 km on the part time. Road surface of snow porridge, ice and asphalt with gravel in places. Drove pretty fast, turns fanned out. Upon arrival in Moscow, I found out that such an aggressive ride on a part-time, at speeds above 100 km.h, killed me. both front wheels. Outer side the rubber is gobbled up, the spikes are missing as a fact ...-)
Newly made owners of SUVs often find themselves captivated by illusions, not suspecting that the torque distributed between four rather than two wheels is far from a panacea for losing control on a winter road. Today we are learning to deal with drifts and skids on a full drive in the company Jaguar F-Pace first edition.
Oh, the huge, waiting for me ice field, lightly covered with snow, at first it seems like a far too far-fetched test. When else in real life you will find yourself in such conditions ... Overboard +1, Novorizhskoe highway covered aqueous solution reagents, but even an ordinary front-wheel hatch feels more than confident on this liquid.
A kilometer and a half to the side, an exit to a country road to the training ground - and the situation changes radically. Ice at borderline near-zero temperatures is especially slippery, with a water film, and even studding is not always effective on such a mixed combination ... “It would be easier on a full drive ...”, I thought, once again catching the car on a simple arc ...
The 380-horsepower top-end Jaguar F-Pace, of course, has a lot of " electronic assistants”: both ABS and ESP, he knows how to brake urgently and dynamically redistribute torque ... And he, of course, has all-wheel drive with a multi-plate clutch and priority rear axle. Is it even necessary to learn how to drive in winter, having such an arsenal? Need to!
“The driver of any car faces two dangers. The first is the loss of stability, that is, the demolition of the front axle. The second is the loss of control, that is, the back skid. With an all-wheel drive transmission scheme, these phenomena occur less often due to the redistribution of torque to each of the axles, and in the case of the F-Pace, also to each of the wheels.
The main advantage of all-wheel drive is a stable start from a place and the ability to maintain good handling at high enough speeds while driving.
How do you know when it's time to change your winter tires?
The material was prepared jointly with NITTO TIRES. In fact, the "self-diagnosis" procedure winter tires only slightly more difficult than that for summer. But if in that case the only official factor influencing...
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If we talk about choosing the safest type of all-wheel drive, then ten years ago I would definitely recommend the “permanent” Full time scheme, in which torque is immediately present on both axles. The current electronically controlled clutches are so fast that at the slightest slip of the drive axle almost instantly, in 3.5 ms, the rear or front is connected. But you simply won’t feel it, so there is almost no point in permanent all-wheel drive.
Moreover, most of the time the second axis is simply not needed - it only gives increased consumption fuel and all. And if we are talking about safety and handling, then a car with a constant, not changing torque on two axles is not very willing to move in an arc. It happens that on turning wheels it just interferes - this happens on cars with a Torsen differential. Therefore, for normal driving conditions, the most justified systems are based on the Haldex clutch with the priority of the front axle or the Magna clutch with the main rear.
But you should always remember that braking distances car, which is very important, does not depend on the type of drive at all. So choosing a car is only a small part of the success.”
Semyon Vodilnikov, senior instructor of the school Jaguar Land Rover
Moving from theory to practice at the Jaguar training ground Land Rover near Moscow. The first task on the ice field seems to be simple - a "snake" between the cones with a gradual increase in the amplitude of movement and speed. Sooner or later, this should lead to a loss of both stability and controllability. Why, what and how to do next, I will learn in the course of this fascinating and interesting play.
The F-Pace media display shows me in real time how the moment is distributed across the wheels, but I have no time to look at the pictures.
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As long as I do not exceed the specified limit of 30 km / h and drive carefully, the crossover perfectly bypasses the cones on almost bare ice even on non-studded tires without connecting the ESP, which I can judge by the absence of a characteristic crunch and flashing icons.
Semyon Vodilnikov, Jaguar Land Rover School Senior Instructor:
“Let's be extremely honest. For each type of coating, for each type of tire, for each vehicle design, there is a maximum allowable speed, on which one or another maneuver can be performed without loss of stability or controllability. Naturally, when correct work steering wheel, gas ... With errors in “piloting”, this speed will be less.”
So, any, even the most advanced stabilization system gives a 20 percent increase in top speed safe maneuver. No more. That is, if on a car without ESP you pass this area without losing exchange rate stability at 30 km/h, then electronic stabilization speed will be 36 km/h. Let's try!
With an increase in the speed and amplitude of the detour of the cones, the stern begins to throw to the side, and the car loses controllability. The ESP light flashes, the Jug becomes sluggish, but the side slip does not disappear from this. Excuse me, but where does all the electronics look?
Semyon Vodilnikov, Jaguar Land Rover School Senior Instructor:
“Nobody has repealed the laws of physics. If the momentum imparted to the car with the help of the accelerator is excessive, then the car will follow the vector in which the moment was initially applied.
The direction can be corrected with the help of the steering wheel, gas and all kinds of additional technical solutions, whether it is redistribution of torque along the axles or wheels or selective braking of one or more wheels.
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But all this works within certain speed limits.
A typical mistake is too high a corner entry speed. If it is done in winter, most likely the front axle will be pulled outward, which is very difficult to correct. Of course, there are professional or sports driving techniques that allow you to drive with a very high speeds, but this is a special article that has been studied for years.
Any electronic system stabilization is, first of all, an analyzer of the correctness of our actions while driving, and only secondarily an effective assistant. If the driver is not able to determine the moment the axles slipped, the automatics that worked are the first indicator that the speed needs to be reduced.
Not this second to hit the brakes, but to understand: road conditions are such that enter next turn or you need to be more careful when changing lanes, even on a perfectly straight track. And, of course, do not try to slow down during maneuvers or on an arc. In this case, only correct management will help. But this, again, is a topic for multiple theoretical and practical studies. If there is no experience, then it's easier to just go slower. Even at full speed."
Another exercise is acceleration with “gas to the floor” and emergency braking. even on ice all-wheel drive transmission the F-Pace's 460 Nm of torque can hardly digest, and the steering has to be worked ahead of the curve to maintain straight-line stability. The stabilization system, which includes traction control, is still off. The instructor's command, the brake to the floor, the chirping of ABS - and the car stops without deviating from the course.
Semyon Vodilnikov, Jaguar Land Rover School Senior Instructor:
“Electronics absolutely cope with their functions, determining how to spread the force on the brake machines along the axes. But the most effective braking will not be with the pedal to the floor, but on the verge of ABS activation. This method is achieved only through training and absolute knowledge of the habits of the car you use.
With the included electronics, everything happens much calmer. It "strangles" the motor, corrects the deliberate rudeness of control and errors, not allowing the heavy-duty Jaguar to go off course. Just in this case, the all-wheel drive fully fulfills its existence.
Semyon Vodilnikov, Jaguar Land Rover School Senior Instructor:
“In winter, the car can slide out and at low speeds. Inexperienced 4WD drivers often make the mistake of thinking that on such a car you can add gas already at the entrance to the turn. As a result, we get the slip of both axes. There is only one way out of the situation: stabilize the front axle by straightening the steering wheel and trying to catch on to the coating, then compensate for the rear skid by adding a weak, “pulling” gas. And again, experience is needed and practical lessons on your own car.
But it also happens that at all minimum speed the car does not go where it should. It seems that you have turned the steering wheel all the way to the left, but it does not obey and goes straight or even to the right. In this case go to desired course rotation of the steering wheel in the direction of axle drift will help, in this case- to the right. This simple movement is hindered by stereotypes, which can only be eliminated through training.
Even to experienced driver I would recommend taking a refresher course once a year driving skills or counter-emergency training. If this is not possible, find a free platform where you can work out certain previously mastered techniques and bring them to automatism. In this case, the risk of getting into an unpleasant situation, especially in winter, will decrease many times over.”
And finally, a few points purely about 4x4 cars:
- An all-wheel drive car stabilizes only “under gas”.
- Having stabilized, it continues acceleration, which is not always safe in the current traffic situation.
- An attempt to brake hard under such conditions most often results in the return of the original instability or uncontrollability, even if the trajectory is straight.
What is the result?
If you are an inexperienced driver who does not have the desire and ability to regularly train and “teach his hand”, then it is easiest to drive slowly enough, even if you have tall car with all-wheel drive, which inspires confidence.
Have you lost control in full drive?
