The sign "Movement without stopping is prohibited" belongs to the family of priority signs. You should not violate the instructions associated with this sign - at best, you will have a serious conversation with a traffic police representative, at worst - serious trouble on the road.
The sign "Access without stopping is prohibited" - a priority sign
The road sign "Movement without stopping is prohibited" is an enhanced version of the sign "Give way" - the first obliges the driver to stop completely. The priority indicator is placed immediately before the stop line, or in case of its absence, before the edge of the road to be crossed.
The driver is obliged to give way to cars passing on the crossed carriageway, and if there is a sign 8.13 - to vehicles moving along the main road.
Signpost 2.5 may be in front of a quarantine post or a railway crossing. In such cases, the driver must slow down and come to a complete stop in front of the sign or stop line. Paragraph 6.15 of the SDA of Russia describes in detail an exception to this rule - if there is a traffic light at the railway crossing with a white signal on, then this indicator does not work.
Also, priority signs are placed at road intersections with poor or limited visibility, where accidents are often recorded. For this reason, even if there is no one to give way to, the driver must still completely stop driving his car and carefully look around. It is quite possible that just such trifling caution can save your life.
Railroad crossing - what's the difference?
The driver on his route can meet three types of railway crossings, which are equipped with appropriate priority signs. The first type is an unregulated move.
Such a crossing provides for a complete stop of the vehicle in front of the sign, and movement can be resumed only after being convinced that there is no approaching obstacle - the train.
This measure was introduced because the driver does not have any tips (neither in the form of a barrier, nor in the form) that can warn in advance about the movement of the train.
The second type is a regulated crossing, where there is a three-section traffic light and a priority sign. If red lights light up on the first one, movement is prohibited, stop in front of the sign or markings. If another signal flashes, movement is allowed. The third type of crossing differs only in the presence of a two-section traffic light, the red lights of which require you to stop.
Sign "Movement without stopping is prohibited" - we pay a fine
According to current legislation, a fine for violating the rules associated with this sign will cost you 800 rubles. Controversial moments often arise on motorways caused by crossing a railway crossing, which is equipped with a priority sign 2.5 and a traffic light. Representatives of law enforcement agencies record an administrative offense of traffic rules, even if the traffic light is green.
Sometimes an attempt to take into account absolutely everything with the help of cumbersome legal language leads to a logical dead end. Our reader Dmitry faced such a situation. The subject of the dispute was the sign" " . He is "Stop", as people like to call it.
Our reader wanted to solve exam tickets for traffic rules, but due to the cumbersome wording in the Rules, he could not immediately figure out exactly where it was necessary to slow down.
To begin with, here is a term from the SDA:
It is forbidden to move without stopping before sign 2.5 or sign 5.33(horizontal road markings 1.12), and in their absence - before the edge of the crossed carriageway. It is necessary to give way to vehicles moving on the intersecting road, and if there is a sign 7.13 - to vehicles moving on the main road, as well as to the right on an equivalent road. When approaching a section of the road on which a sign is installed, as well as a railway crossing, through which traffic is not prohibited, the driver must stop before sign 2.5 or sign 5.33 (horizontal road markings 1.12).
As you can see, it is rather problematic to understand where to slow down, in front of a sign or the edge of the roadway. Dmitry, when deciding on a ticket, chose the first part of the term - and turned out to be wrong. According to the authors of the task, it is necessary to stop and let cars pass before the edge of the roadway.
Dmitry rightly decided that there was an error in the ticket. He reported about it by e-mail to the compilers of the tickets. As it turned out, the organization - the compiler of the tasks is already aware of the problem. The response states that the company made a request to the traffic police on this issue. The inspectors answered something like this: "If there is a stop line in the form of a sign 5.33 or markings, we stop in front of her. If there is no stop line, you need to stop before the edge of the crossed carriageway". The confusing wording, according to the developers, was due to the need to mention the railway crossing.
What will the experts say?
Interestingly, when discussing this issue, a rather heated dispute arose in the editorial office. They decided that if not a philologist, then at least a specialist should put an end to the discussion.
Well, no problem - we turn to our permanent expert on traffic rules Alexander Konoplitsky. Recall that he has many years of experience in the traffic police, an investigator for an accident, the practice of a forensic auto technician and a teacher in a driving school.
In accordance with the definition of the sign according to the SDA, the driver is obliged to stop the vehicle only in front of the sign itself 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited", sign 5.33 "Stop line" or horizontal road marking line 1.12 "Stop line". The main condition here is that the driver must make a stop. Since in the description all of the above is indicated as a listing, the driver can stop in front of any of the listed objects at his own discretion - in front of sign 2.5, or sign 5.33, or horizontal road markings 1.12.
- Well, how do you answer a similar question from a ticket sent by a reader: there is an intersection, in front of it is sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited" and there is no stop line. Where do we stop - after the sign (before the edge of the carriageway) or before it?
In this case, in the question asked, the driver is obliged to stop only in front of sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited", since there are no other objects, he does not have the right to choose. Further, in the very wording of the requirements of this sign, there is a requirement to stop before the edge of the intersected carriageway, provided that all of the above is absent - sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited", sign 5.33 "Stop line", horizontal road marking line 1.12 "Stop line ". So, you need to stop at all intersections where there are none.
To confirm or refute this idea, I turned to a very famous and respected professor in the field of philosophy and logic. From the definition it is not clear where you need to stop in the presence of a sign 2.5 or horizontal road markings, and where - in their absence. Do the words "in their absence" refer to signs 2.5 and 5.33 (horizontal road markings 1.12) or only sign 5.33 (horizontal road markings 1.12)?
The response I received confirmed my thoughts (quote):
"If there is at least one of the indicated conditions - sign 2.5 or horizontal road markings, you need to stop at the existing sign. If there are two conditions - sign 2.5 and horizontal road markings - you need to stop at any of them, at the discretion of the driver. Words" in their absence "refer to both conditions - sign 2.5 or horizontal road markings, therefore, if none of these conditions is present, you need to stop before the edge of the crossed carriageway" .
What happens? Based on this paragraph, the driver is obliged to stop before the edge of the crossed carriageway at any intersection where there is no specified road sign. So it is written in the definition of the sign ... Even if the car driven by him is driving along the main road and there is no sign 2.5 on the road in front of the intersection and all of the above, he must stop. So it is written in the traffic rules!
I think it could have been put like this:
2.5. Movement without stopping is prohibited- it is forbidden to move at this intersection without stopping in front of sign 2.5 or the edge of the crossed carriageway (in the absence of sign 5.33 or horizontal road markings 1.12 ...
Everything would become simpler and clearer, but alas ... We wanted the best, but it turned out as always ...
But the adventures of the driver with the participation of this road sign do not end there. Let's carefully read definition 2.41, where it says what a stop is:
2.41. Vehicle stop- intentional suspension of the movement of the vehicle for up to 5 minutes, and also for more than 5 minutes, if it is necessary for boarding (disembarking) passengers or loading (unloading) the vehicle.
As I understand it, an intentional stop is a stop by the driver's intent. He may not want to stop, but the sign is forcing him. It turns out it seems like not a deliberate, but a forced stop.
We read the term 2.9 "Forced stop":
2.9. Forced vehicle stop- termination of the movement of the vehicle due to its technical malfunction or danger created by road users, the cargo carried, the condition of the driver (passenger), the appearance of an object that impedes traffic.
It is also not suitable, since there are no listed reasons for stopping, and the stop was made at the request of the sign.
It turns out that there are three types of stops - a deliberate stop and a forced stop described in the SDA, as well as a stop not provided for by the SDA at the request of a sign.
As a result, you need to stop at all unregulated intersections. Are you not stopping? So you're breaking!
How about in life?
It turns out that there is still an error in the ticket? Let's check in a real situation!
We went to several intersections and saw how the capital's owners comply with the requirements of the 2.5 sign without a stop line. All drivers do exactly as indicated on the ticket - go beyond the sign and stop at the edge of the roadway.
Not by the rules? But it's safe. In the photo, this is not noticeable, but the Saab driver at the intersection of Lenin and Oktyabrskaya streets is obscured by the building on the left and cars parked nearby. In such a situation, it is difficult to assess the situation without driving to the edge of the roadway.
Our verdict
Maybe, based on the traffic rules, it turns out that you need to stop in front of the sign. But what will you see if instead of the roadway on the left and right there is a wall, a fence or parked cars? But this is precisely what will be in front of your eyes in the first place, if you do not drive further, beyond the sign, to the edge of the roadway. In a word, discrepancies in the wording of the sign in the SDA and disputes could have been avoided if it had been drawn up in such a way that not only the compilers themselves understood the true meaning.
In the stream of today's worries, in the string of our busyness and the restless urging pace of life, to stop even for a second sometimes means one thing - to be late. But as strange as it may sound, you need to know where not to stop... After all, sometimes the saved seconds can turn into a loss of much more time, minutes and hours! In fact, there are thousands of such examples when you can lose much more than save. One of them is not stopping at the sign "Movement without stopping is prohibited." A lot of people call it a stop sign, which is actually not so. But out of solidarity with the majority, so that everything is most clear, we will also switch for a while and call it a stop sign, implying that this is a sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited" -. There is also another similar sign - "Stop line", as you may have guessed, it is placed opposite the very markings - the stop line. More on this in our other article "Penalty for a check-in for a stop line".
An offense such as violating the requirements of this sign can take much more time than stopping. Let's say if the driver is convicted of a violation, then this will be followed by a stop to draw up a protocol. In addition, the driver will also be held administratively liable by issuing a fine. The fine can be different, from the minimum on public roads in "ordinary" places and higher if the requirements of the "Stop" sign are violated when crossing the railway tracks. Then you have to find money and again time to sort it all out. But we will not pile on you all at once, let's look at everything in order ...
Sign "Stop" its interpretation in the traffic rules and installation locations
The fact that there is such a “Stop” sign is known to everyone who once passed on the rights. But not everyone already remembers what requirements he interprets. If we quote the traffic rules, and what is written for the sign 2.5, then we will find the following information ...
Sign 2.5 "Stop", in fact, the sign is written in English STOP, can be installed in front of the railway crossing, quarantine post, at the intersection of roads, that is, at the crossroads. In these cases, the driver must stop in front of the stop line, and in its absence, in front of the sign, on the edge of the carriageways.
To make it clear how you still need to stop in each of the possible options, take a look at the picture. In the first case, there is a stop line, and in the second, there is not.
(The figures show where it is necessary to stop the vehicle in the presence of a stop sign, in the case of a stop line and in the absence of one.)
Now that we have found out that the stop sign dictates a mandatory stop, it is necessary to understand what threatens if this requirement is not met.
Penalty for not stopping at the stop sign at the intersection of roads (Article 12.16 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation)
So, the stop sign is installed at the crossroads, as a rule, these are roads with a significant difference in their meaning, for example, a highway and a road from the city. It can be said that the sign is put up in such situations when entering the main road is fraught with the risk of a serious accident, which will be difficult to avoid if the driver does not follow priorities. You can also say that the sign is placed on especially critical areas.
Now about cases of violation... If the driver ignores the requirements of the Stop sign, that is, does not stop or stops according to the Rules. Not according to the Rules, this is when the stop will be made behind the stop line, and if there is none, then not at the intersection of the carriageways. In this case, he will be fined under Article 12.16 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation. By itself, Article 12.16 regulates violations associated with ignoring the requirements of signs and markings. It is called just that - "Failure to comply with the requirements prescribed by road signs or roadway markings." And in part 1 of the article, the following is written.
The fine in this case will be the minimum possible today - 500 rubles. There may also be a warning.
Penalty for not stopping at the stop sign when crossing railway tracks (Article 12.10 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation)
Many of the railroad crossings in their "arsenal" have a "stop" sign, as in case A in the picture. A stop with this option should be made immediately before the sign or stop line.
This does not mean at all that in this case the driver faces a similar punishment, which we mentioned in the previous paragraph. The thing is that the road is a zone of increased danger, and even a railway crossing is something extremely dangerous! Therefore, in this case, those in power provided for a more severe punishment. So with regard to railway crossings, there is Article 12.10 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation "Violation of the rules for driving through railway crossings ...", part 2 ...
In this case, there is no longer a warning. Yes, and the fine, as you noticed, will be twice as high as in case of violation of the requirement of the "Stop" sign outside the railway crossing.
Is it possible to avoid a fine for a stop sign violation or pay a fine at a discount?
Summing up about violations associated with the stop sign
So, summing up, it can be argued that violation of the requirements of the stop sign is the type of offense that is subject to administrative responsibility. But the most important thing is not this, but the fact that if something can be corrected with money and fines, but something can no longer be done for any money. We all mean that the Stop sign is not installed just like that, which means that fulfilling its requirements is primarily a matter of safety, a matter of health and life of road users. That is why it is worth strictly and unconditionally fulfilling the requirements of this sign in order to avoid big trouble.
Question - answer on the topic "Penalty for not stopping at the stop sign"
Question: Is it possible to pass an intersection (railway crossing) without stopping if the stop sign is there, but there is actually no one to give way, there is no one and no one is visible?
Answer: No, in any case, the driver must stop.
Question: Is there an increased fine or deprivation of rights for a repeated offense in relation to the requirements of the stop sign?
Answer: No, there is no increased fine or deprivation of rights for recidivism for the Stop sign.
The topic of today's discussion is the passage of railway crossings.
Question: If a white-moon traffic light is on at the railway crossing and the STOP sign is set - “Movement without stopping is prohibited”, then what should be followed? When passing through a railway crossing, do I need to stop at the sign?
The octagonal red sign with the inscription STOP - belongs to the group. In accordance with, a working traffic light cancels the effect of priority signs. When the traffic light is not working (turned off), the driver must follow the priority signs, in your case, the requirement of sign 2.5.
According to GOST R 52289-2004, at railway crossings equipped with traffic lights, sign 2.5 should not be installed. Below is an excerpt from the document.
“5.3.7. ... The sign is installed in front of railway crossings without an attendant, not equipped with traffic lights, at a distance of 10 m to the nearest rail in cases where, at a distance of 50 m from the nearest rail, the visibility distance of the train is less than the value specified in table 5 "(table can be viewed in GOST R 52289 -2004).
Despite these rules, the mentioned combination of the sign 2.5 and the traffic light occurs, for example, the picture below (the picture is real) testifies to this. Perhaps the traffic light in this case is not working, maybe they did not dismantle it, but installed it, the reason is not important. There is a fact - the presence of both a railway traffic light and a sign 2.5.
A traffic light with a white-moon signal is a full-fledged traffic light (), which regulates the movement of vehicles across the railway tracks.
When the traffic light before the railway crossing is working (the white-moon signal is flashing - traffic across the tracks is allowed), then you do not need to stop. If the traffic light before the railway crossing does not work (not a single signal is on), then before continuing to move, you should first stop in front of sign 2.5. Stop required!
: "When approaching a railway crossing, the driver must be guided by the requirements of road signs, traffic lights, markings, the position of the barrier ... and so on." In your case, from the above, this is either a working traffic light, or a priority sign. The traffic light does not work - sign 2.5 comes into effect.
Where is it necessary to stop at a prohibitory signal (traffic light or on duty (traffic controller) at the railway crossing)?
When passage through the railway is prohibited, the place to stop the car is regulated: "... at the stop line, sign 2.5 or traffic lights, if they are not there - no closer than 5m from the barrier, and in the absence of a barrier - no closer than 10m to the nearest rail."
Attention should be paid to the sequence in which the places of stops for a prohibition signal are listed, i.e. what you need to pay attention to in the first place. The very first is the presence of a "stop line" (or). If " " is missing, then you need to stop before the sign 2.5 or traffic lights, etc.
Of course, no one will control the exact footage to the rail or barrier, but the main thing, after all, is a safety issue.
Of course, if markup is present, there are no questions. Everything is clear from the definition.
2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited." It is forbidden to move without stopping in front of the stop line, and if there is none, in front of the edge of the crossed carriageway. The driver must give way to vehicles moving on the intersected, and if there is a sign 8.13 - on the main road.
Sign 2.5 may be installed in front of a railway crossing or a quarantine post. In these cases, the driver must stop in front of the stop line, and in its absence, in front of the sign.
The fact that the definition deals only with markup follows also from the definition of markup 1.12.
1.12 - indicates the place where the driver must stop in the presence of a sign 2.5 or with a prohibitory signal of a traffic light (traffic controller);
There is no mention in the Rules of the use of sign 6.16 "Stop line" with road sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited."
6.16 "Stop line". Place where vehicles stop at a prohibitory traffic light signal (traffic controller).
Then what should we do if the traffic lights are turned off and the intersection is unregulated, and there is no marking, there are only signs 2.5 “Movement without stopping is prohibited” and 6.16 “Stop line”.
We will stop in front of the sign 6.16 "Stop line". If the Rules of the Road omit the definition of our actions, then GOST R 52289-2004 says that sign 6.16 can be used to duplicate marking 1.12.
5.7.18
The sign may be used to duplicate marking 1.12, in which case it is installed in the same cross section with the marking.
Of course, it is correct if, in accordance with the rules for the use of road signs, markings, in the presence of a sign 2.5 “Movement without stopping is prohibited”, markings 1.12 ( stop line).
6.2.14
We would not have to deal with the stopping place, in the absence of markings and the presence of the sign 6.16 "Stop Line", if the following was added to the description of the sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited" - sign 6.16.
2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited." It is forbidden to move without stopping before the stop line ( sign 6.16 ), and if not, before the edge of the crossed carriageway. The driver must give way to vehicles moving on the intersected, and if there is a sign 8.13 - on the main road.
Good luck on the road!
Related topics
10 comments
Sergei Milyutin
Denis, hello.
Sign 6.16 "Stop line", in the absence of marking 1.12, is installed according to the requirements (clause 6.2.14) for the place of marking, which is directly stated in clause 5.7.18 of the national standard.
Clause 6.2.14 contains the rules for the application of marking 1.12, which indicates the place where vehicles stop at a prohibitory traffic signal, as well as sign 6.16, respectively, the requirements for placement should not differ, otherwise this is already a contradiction of signs and markings.
If the traffic light is installed on the side of the carriageway, then the sign 6.16 should be installed at a distance of 3-5 meters from it.
Yuri
Hello! I would like to know exactly at what distance from the traffic light the sign 6.16 and the stop line 1.12 should be installed. In Volgograd there are intersections where from a traffic light to a sign up to seven meters ...
Sergei Milyutin
Yuri, hello.
The rules for installing signs and marking are determined by the national standard.
GOST R 52289-2004. Technical means of organizing traffic. Rules for the use of road signs, markings, traffic lights, road barriers and guides.
5.7.18 Sign 6.16 "Stop line" is used to indicate the place where vehicles stop at regulated intersections and at unregulated railway crossings.
The sign is installed to the right of the road or above the carriageway. It is allowed to install a sign above each traffic lane.
If the sign is used independently (without marking 1.12), then the distance from the sign to the traffic light, barrier or near rail is determined according to 6.2.14.
The sign may be used to duplicate marking 1.12, in which case it is installed in the same cross section with the marking.
In the rules for installing a sign 6.16 "Stop line" noted that the sign in the absence of markings 1.12 , set by 6.2.14 . This paragraph of the standard defines the rules for marking 1.12 .
6.2.14 Marking 1.12 (stop line) is used in front of the intersection if there is a sign 2.5 “Movement without stopping is prohibited”, in places where traffic is regulated by traffic lights, and before railway crossings (Figures B.7, B.9, B.17).
The marking is applied in front of the intersection in the presence of a sign 2.5 at a distance of no more than 1 m from the border of the crossing carriageway.
Marking 1.12 is applied at a distance of 10-20 m from the traffic light T.1 or T.2 when the traffic light is located above the roadway and 3-5 m - when located on the side of the roadway to ensure the visibility of their signals. It is allowed to reduce the specified distances to 5 and 1 m, respectively, in the presence of T.3 traffic lights of any design.
If there is a pedestrian crossing, the markings are applied at a distance of at least 1 m before the crossing (Figure B.18).
The marking is applied at a distance of 1-3 m to the traffic light T.5, used to regulate the movement of shuttle buses or trolleybuses moving along a specially allocated lane.
At railway crossings, marking 1.12 is applied at a distance of 5 m from the barrier or traffic light, and in their absence - at a distance of 10 m from the nearest rail in one alignment with sign 2.5 (Figure B.17.).
Kirill
Good afternoon,
please tell me how to pass a difficult intersection correctly - two intersections of carriageways with a dividing lawn and a stop line - your document just has a suitable picture with the only difference being that at a real intersection there is a stop line and a stop sign, but there is no traffic light. Interested in how to properly make a U-turn at such an intersection while moving along the roadway along the dividing lawn. The intersection is absolutely real - Ekaterinburg, the intersection of Kirovgradskaya-Stakhanovskaya streets, the turn is made from Kirovgradskaya to Kirovgradskaya in the opposite direction, all signs and markings are visible on maps.google.com. Doubts about the correctness of the turn at such an intersection arise precisely because there is no traffic light above the stop sign and next to the stop line, and there are no traffic lights within a radius of 5 meters (GOST R 52289-2004) that could indicate when it is possible to cross this stop line .Sincerely,
KirillSergei Milyutin
Hello Kirill.
If I understood correctly, you meant this intersection in Yekaterinburg, st. Kirovgradskaya and st. Stakhanovskaya.
If you look at the pictures (I don’t know what the marking looks like at the moment), then we see a violation of the correspondence between the installation of the sign 6.16 “Stop line” and the marking 1.12 (stop line), they should be in the same cross section.
6.2.14 Marking 1.12 (stop line) is used in front of the intersection in the presence of the sign 2.5 "Movement without stopping is prohibited", in places where traffic is regulated by traffic lights, and before railway crossings (Figures B.7, B.9, B.17) .
Marking 1.12 is applied at a distance of 10-20 m from the traffic light T.1 or T.2 when the traffic light is located above the roadway and 3-5 m - when located on the side of the roadway to ensure the visibility of their signals.
5.7.18 Sign 6.16 "Stop line" is used to indicate the place where vehicles stop at regulated intersections and at unregulated railway crossings.
If the sign is used independently (without marking 1.12), then the distance from the sign to the traffic light, barrier or near rail is determined according to 6.2.14.7.3.10 (except T.3, T.6, T.10). Traffic light T.1.g is installed only above the roadway.
Traffic lights installed behind the intersection can be attributed to duplicating. Although, as you can see, the main traffic lights are missing.
7.3.11 Traffic lights T.1 of any design and T.2 installed on the side of the carriageway are duplicated.
If there are dividing lanes, guide islands or safety islands, duplicate traffic lights (except for T.1.p, T.2 with an arrow to the right) are installed at the intersection, behind it between the carriageways or to the left of the intersection. At the same time, the installation of a backup traffic light to the left of the intersection is allowed if the carriageway in the opposite direction has no more than three lanes, and the traffic intensity in each lane is not more than 500 units per hour.
Traffic lights located above the carriageway may not be duplicated.
While there is only one way out, since you have traffic organized in this way and to avoid conflicts, stop before the marking 1.12 (stop line), if it is absent, before the sign 6.16 "Stop line" and be guided by the signals of traffic lights installed behind the intersection.
13.7. A driver who enters an intersection with an enabling traffic signal must exit in the intended direction, regardless of the traffic signals at the exit from the intersection.
And my advice, try sending an appeal to the regional traffic police through the official website, so that they consider the possibility of putting the traffic light object in order at this intersection.
Best regards, Sergei.Kirill
Sergey, thank you very much for the detailed answer and the time spent. I completely agree with you, while reading the relevant GOSTs, I noted one more point for myself:
7.3.2 When installing T.3 traffic lights of any design, their signals must be visible to the driver of a vehicle stopped in front of sign 6.16 "Stop line" or marking 1.12 "Stop line" on the extreme lane closest to this traffic light.
If I understand correctly, the traffic light should not only be next to the stop line / stop sign (no further than 5 meters), but it should also be located to the right of the lane, and not from the side of the oncoming lane.
I will try to talk to the traffic police at this intersection.Sincerely,
KirillSergei Milyutin
Cyril, regarding paragraph 7.3.2, in your case is not entirely suitable. On the image is a traffic light T.1 "with a repeater" T.3.
7.2.6 of the same versions, if their visibility for the driver of the vehicle stopped at the stop line on the extreme lane of the carriageway in this direction is difficult. T.3 traffic lights of any design are installed on the same rack with T.1 traffic lights of the same design.
Today, such a performance of the installation is not often found.
T.1 traffic lights are used at intersections.
7.2.1 Traffic lights T.1 and T.1.g are used at intersections in case of simultaneous passage of vehicles in all permitted directions from a given approach to the intersection and at controlled pedestrian crossings located between intersections.
Visibility of traffic lights T.1 according to GOST R 52289-2004 .:
7.3.1 to which they apply. If this condition cannot be met, sign 1.8 "Traffic light regulation" according to 5.2.11 is installed.
It is allowed to reduce the specified distances to 5 and 1 m, respectively, in the presence of T.3 traffic lights of any design.
It’s right that they decided to contact the traffic police, today, as a rule, they respond to requests and send the relevant instructions to the responsible services (administration), everything else, of course, no longer depends on them.
Best regards, Sergei.As you can see, the "Rules for the use of road signs, markings, traffic lights, road barriers and guides" determine that sign 6.16 "Stop line" and marking 1.12 (stop line) must be on the same line.
On our roads, often things look different. There is a situation about which you write. Then what are our actions in accordance with the Rules.
In the Rules, with regard to marking 1.12 (stop line), it is clearly stated that the marking indicates the place where we must stop.
Horizontal markings (lines, arrows, inscriptions and other designations on the carriageway) establish certain modes and traffic patterns or contain other information for road users.
1.12 (stop line) - indicates the place where the driver must stop in the presence of a sign 2.5 or at a prohibitory signal of a traffic light (traffic controller);
As you can see, the marking establishes certain modes and the order of movement, which obliges us to comply with the instructions of the road markings. But there is one thing, the Rules also say that if the meaning of road signs and marking lines contradict each other, drivers should be guided by road signs.
In cases where the meanings of road signs, including temporary ones, and horizontal marking lines contradict each other or the markings are not sufficiently distinguishable, drivers should be guided by road signs.
That is, in the situation you are talking about, if we follow the definition from the Rules of the Road, we must stop in front of sign 6.16, but the definition of marking 1.12 (stop line) clearly indicates to us the place where we must stop if there is a sign 2.5 or when prohibiting signal of a traffic light (traffic controller). And if we turn again to the Rules, 6.16 "Stop line" refers to information signs that inform us about the location of settlements and other objects, as well as about the established or recommended driving modes.
If there is a marking 1.12 (stop line), we stop in front of it. If there is no marking, we are guided by the sign 6.16 "Stop line". As follows from the same GOST R 52289-2004, sign 6.16 "Stop line" can be used to duplicate markup 1.12.
As you can see, there is no need to make any changes to the Rules, you just need to apply markings and install road signs in accordance with the requirements of the Rules for the use of road signs, markings, traffic lights, road barriers and guides.
Denis
Good evening, Sergey. I wanted to clarify according to the rules for installing the sign 6.16, in case of its independent use. If the sign is used independently (without marking 1.12), then the distance from the sign to the traffic light, barrier or near rail is determined according to 6.2.14. There is no such explanation in paragraph 6.2.14. Is it legal to install a sign on a pole where a traffic light is located?
