Volkswagen's preselective two-clutch gearbox made a splash in the automotive market at the time. The Germans managed to create such a "robot" that will surpass a professional racer in terms of speed of switching steps, and in terms of economy it will give odds to any classical mechanics. Direkt Schalt Getrieb - this is how the sacred abbreviation DSG stands for, that is, "direct switching box".
The first was the 6-speed version of the DSG with dual clutch discs operating in an oil bath, and a little later, a 7-speed version of the DSG with a pair of "dry" clutches was developed. Similar to those used in conventional mechanics. That's just the maximum torque of the engine, which the "dry seven" with the DQ200 index is able to digest, has decreased to 250 Nm (instead of 380), so the assembly is installed on less powerful versions of VW Group cars with turbo engines of 1.2 liters, 1.4 liters , and 1.8 liters.
As you know, such a "quick-firing" robot is installed not only on the prestigious Volkswagen and Audi models, but quite practical Skoda cars also get a trailer. Among the indisputable advantages of the DSG 7 are the speed and optimal gearshift logic, the excellent dynamics of cars with preselective gearboxes and fuel economy even compared to conventional mechanics. Only tolerable jerks when changing gears, caused by too sharp closing of dry clutch discs, can be written down as disadvantages. However, we are talking mainly about the lower 2-3 gears, and then everything happens smoothly.
Dream, not a box? - No matter how! The low reliability of the long-suffering DSG 7 is still legendary in the world to this day. The "dry" robotic box became a real headache for the VW concern - the list of problems with it was as thick as the volume of War and Peace. The two most problematic nodes of the 7-speed DSG: this is the so-called "mechatronics" unit and friction clutches, which should have been enough for the entire period of operation. Less often, premature wear of the shaft bearings and the clutch release fork was noted. The manufacturer tried to cure the problems by flashing the control unit, improving the "mechatronics" itself and the double clutch, and indeed the entire mechanical part as a whole.
It is believed that the DSG 7 boxes of the 2014 model are the most trouble-free units, so VW even canceled the special guarantee for the "robot", which was valid in Russia for cars manufactured on December 31, 2013 - for such instances, the "extension" is 5 years or 150 thousand .km run. And fresh copies are content with a standard 2-year warranty with no mileage limit.
Minimum price
Maximum price
Despite the deep modernization of the DSG 7, complaints are still sometimes received against the box. And if everything is clear with "warranty" cars - the officials, in theory, will change the faulty unit without any problems, then what should the owner prepare for after 2 years of operation? In the end, no one canceled the mechanical damage to the box when you can no longer hide behind the guarantee. We decided to find out how much it would actually cost to replace a DSG 7 using the example of a relatively affordable 2015 Skoda Octavia. with a 1.8 TSI engine and, of course, the ill-fated "robot".
By the way, this time we are reviewing the car, which is called “hands off”, because the representative office of the Skoda brand did not express much desire to provide us with the Octavia for traditional Friday research.
But the official dealer "Avtopraga North-West" made the calculation without problems and delays. It turned out that the new 7-speed DQ200 for our Skoda will cost an incredible 345,890 rubles. The most unexpected thing is that the dealer, for unclear reasons, offered us a fantastically cheap option: through other spare parts channels, we were given numbers in the range from 485 to 530 thousand! Yes, this is half the cost of a brand new base Octavia! But we start from official figures, to which we still need to add the cost of replacing the box, its firmware and adaptation - and this is at least another 35 thousand. Total - 380,890 rubles. Isn't it too much for a practical Skoda Octavia?
Spare parts
Service works
Let's look at the problem from the other side: due to the massive demand for DSG 7 repair, there is also a corresponding offer from unofficial workshops - many specialists are ready to repair your DQ200. Prices start from 30 thousand rubles for the repair of the "mechatronics" unit and 50 thousand for the replacement of clutches, up to the ceiling 130-150 thousand rubles for the repair of the turnkey box, including the replacement of the unit, clutches and the bulkhead of the entire mechanical part of the "robot".
And in order to guarantee a longer service life of the preselective box, you can and should heed the advice of technical specialists and experienced users of the DSG 7. Firstly, do not get carried away with aggressive driving - the “robot” does not like this. Fans of "fun starts" should completely forget about acceleration from a standstill in two pedals - i.e. pressing the brake and at the same time sinking the accelerator. Secondly, it is recommended to push the “brake” harder at short stops before traffic lights so that the clutches are fully opened. Finally, it is forbidden to abuse slippage, for example, on a slippery road or at a time when the car is stuck.
P.S. If you think that there is nothing so terribly expensive in your car, then you simply have not read our new research, stay tuned. We promise new tears every week. :)
16.02.2017The seven-speed DSG 7 gearbox with low torque (no more than 250 Nm) and dry clutch, according to the manufacturer, does not require mandatory maintenance of the DQ200. But in many car services you will be advised to regularly change the oil in the circuits of such a gearbox, since many drivers complain about it.
DSG box and its features
DSG box was not calculated for high torque and therefore it is installed on medium-power vehicles with engines of 1.4, 1.6 maximum 1.8 liters equipped with a turbine.
The design features that such DSG box, make the machine more economical at low loads. For example, if desired, the pump of the hydraulic system can be connected from an electric motor.
At first glance - an excellent choice: economical, light, has a dry type of clutch from LuK, which is designed for three hundred thousand kilometers and does not need maintenance. Use with joy! But there are some points that we will discuss later, but for now in more detail about the types of checkpoints.
Also an interesting fact when using the DSG 7 was that the problems with this gearbox are directly related to the mass of the car. A convincing example can be a large number of service calls with cars Scoda Superb 2008-2011. The weight of such a car with people inside and luggage could approach the mark of 2 tons, which inevitably led to rapid damage to the gearbox. In this case, a simple pattern in the operation of the car is triggered: a large mass with a gearbox sensitive to overloads significantly increases the risk of its failure.
This problem was solved only by 2013. At that time, the DSG 6 box began to be installed on SuperB station wagons and ScodaYeti crossovers. At the same time, the tested DSG 6 was suitable for 1.8-liter engines, and the improved DSG 7 clutch.
Conclusions about the DSG 7
As a result, from the above comes the understanding that DSG clutch fits the golden law of correspondence - the more complex the mechanism, the less reliable it is. Such problems can appear in any gearbox, but if this is a common thing for mechanics, then the DSG is immediately diagnosed as incapacitated. And in most cases, this is a question of the cost of repairing a manual transmission and DSG.
But there is a fact that, despite numerous negative reviews, motorists who have switched to a robotic gearbox in more than 90% of cases re-select a car with the same gearbox.
Volkswagen is not going to stop the process of updating and releasing new DSG variants. It may be that the new VAG models will no longer be equipped with six- and seven-speed gearboxes, but with ten-speed DSG. As the transmission system becomes more complex, so will the need for its reliability. It is possible that Volkswagen planned the development of the DSG not as an experimental and risky project, but as a prospect for the development of the gearbox.
3.6 (72.31%) 13 votes
At the mention of the robotic transmission DSG-7 with dry clutch, most immediately begin to talk about its unreliability. However, as practice shows, the overwhelming majority of the respondents have never encountered cars equipped with this gearbox at all. In order to understand the reliability and main problems of the DSG-7 DQ200, we decided to talk and get the opinions of real owners who operate VAG cars in 2017 with a dry clutch DSG-7.
On our own behalf, we can add that for more than 3 years we had at our personal disposal a Skoda Octavia A7 equipped with a robot and a 1.8 liter engine with a capacity of 180 horsepower. For 3 years, the car, or rather the Direct-Shift Gearbox robotic transmission, did not cause any problems. Moreover, the car was operated mercilessly, almost on a daily basis - “sneakers on the floor” with constant sharp accelerations from a traffic light. And only on a run of 72,000 once did we experience a slight vibration, and this happened after we stood for more than 3 hours in a traffic jam with constant gas-brake movement.
Summing up, we can safely say that it has become much more reliable than the very first version, which gave the owners a huge headache, especially on the Volkswagen Passat B7 of the first years of production. Of the main advantages, lightning-fast gear shifting, excellent fuel economy and, of course, dynamics can be noted. Using the example of the 3rd generation Octavia with only 180 horsepower, the Czech car was able to leave its competitors far behind with more powerful and bulky engines. Octavia A7 with a 1.8 liter engine is perhaps one of the fastest cars in its class and price segment, only more expensive cars in sports modifications are faster.
Reviews about DSG-7 Volkswagen car owners
In order to learn about all the pros and cons of the robot, we decided to talk with the owners of Volkswagen cars and find out their opinion about reliability.
- Volkswagen Passat
Alexander shared his opinion with us, who has owned a Volkswagen Passat sedan with a 1.8 liter engine for more than 4 years.
First of all, I'll start with the fact that I bought a new car and thought for a long time about taking it with a 1.4 or 1.8 liter engine, because. I often drive on the highway, but I decided to opt for a larger engine. I think that it will withstand the load at high speeds better than a low-volume one, which is more suitable for those who operate the car only in the city. As for the gearbox, I originally planned to take the mechanics, because. I heard a lot about the problems of the robot, moreover, one of my friends had a run of 48,000 km. However, having studied the forums with owner reviews, I came to the conclusion that over the past few years, engineers have managed to rid the DSG of all the shortcomings and the box has become much more reliable, as a result of which the choice fell on the version with a robot, which I never regretted. For all the time the car has not delivered any problems and makes me happy to this day.
Of the minuses, I can only note the unpleasant sound of metal when driving through speed bumps or other irregularities. It seems that instead of a well-oiled mechanism, bolts were poured into the box, which, when shaking, beat each other. A trip to the dealer did not give any results, besides, judging by the forums, this is a common problem that the official dealer cannot do anything about and answers only with excuses - they say this does not affect the operation of the transmission and the fact that the rattle is not a malfunction, but is only a feature of the DSG 7 with a dry clutch.
Passat B8
Good day everyone, my name is Konstantin and here is my review of the DSG box, which many are so afraid of. First I want to note that before that I had an Octavia A7 that suited me in everything, but I wanted a bigger car, at first I wanted to take a new Superb, but after visiting a Volkswagen dealer and driving a new Passat, I decided to opt for it. The funds were only enough for a version with a 1.4 liter engine, of course I wanted a more powerful version with a 180 horsepower engine, but paying about 1,900,000 is too expensive for me, and even 150 hp. quite enough for city driving.
As for the transmission, the choice was definitely in favor of the robot, because. I am not a fan of “pulling” the gearshift knob and pressing the pedals, this occupation is very exhausting for me, after work I want to get home as quickly as possible with comfort. Because as I wrote above, I had experience in operating a car with an identical transmission and I am familiar with reliability and shortcomings firsthand, everything suits me completely, but somehow I don’t want to change to a standard automatic machine. after the DSG, the work of the classic automatic transmission seems too thoughtful and fuel consumption played a role. With proper operation, the DSG should not cause any complaints, if you encounter this gearbox for the first time, then be sure to read the instructions for proper operation in the book, which will avoid breakdowns and failure of mechatronics.
Volkswagen Jetta
My name is Kirill Vasilyevich and here is my review of the DQ200 robot. I bought a car not new, but with a mileage of 50,000 km, initially I wanted to find one with an atmospheric engine and a classic torque converter, but they didn’t sell such cars in our city. An advertisement for the sale of a version with a turbo engine and a DQ200 robot caught my eye, I honestly admit that two things bribed me - the first is the price of the car and the second is its dynamics along with low fuel consumption.
At first, the car pleased everyone with handling and dynamics and imperceptible gear shifting, but after 6,000 km problems began - the box began to kick when shifting gears from second to third, and the kicks were quite strong and noticeable. Moreover, driving on a rough road hears a distinct clang of metal. The trip to the dealer ended with a verdict of mechatronics failure, since the car is still under warranty, the replacement cost under warranty. I am afraid that the breakdown may happen again, and the repair will have to be done out of my own pocket, so I plan to put the car up for sale in the near future.
Golf MK7
I’ll say right away that I made the purchase rather not with my head, but with my heart. very long dreamed of this German hatchback. Almost with the advent of the first photos of the seventh generation, I began to study all the information about it, including the DQ200 robot, which, judging by the numerous dissatisfied reviews of the owners, raised a lot of questions about reliability. By the way, the main problems occurred in the first years, then the company gradually corrected all design flaws. The main problem was overheating of the clutch and its failure due to frequent switching from 1 to second gear and back while driving through traffic jams. This problem was solved by reprogramming and increasing the first gear, more precisely, now the gear shifts much later, which reduces the number of gear changes to the second. I hope you understand what I wanted to say. I approached this issue with full responsibility and read a fairly large number of tips on how to extend the life of the DSG DQ200, including manuals for proper operation, which say that it is better to switch to neutral during a long stop (in a traffic jam or at a traffic light) ( N), and in heavy traffic, either use sport mode (S) or manual shift mode. Yes, of course, in this sense, the classic automatic is much more convenient and simpler, but I would not change the sensations that Direct Shift Gearbox gives for anything, I really like to feel constant acceleration and the absence of a gear shift sensation, like in a classic automatic transmission.
Now my golf has run 33,400 km and for all this time I have not had any problems (pah-pah-pah), yes, of course, the mileage is quite miserable, but now we can say that the DQ200 robot in 2017 has become much more reliable than the first his version. In the future, I plan to buy a car also on a robot, but I hope that it will be either a 6-speed wet clutch DQ250, or a wet clutch with seven gears, which is currently considered the most reliable among VAG robotic transmissions.
Volkswagen Polo Sedan GT
Before that, I already had a Polo sedan but with a conventional automatic, everyone liked the car, but lacked dynamics. Immediately after the appearance of information about the version with, I thought about buying it. The dynamics are really interesting considering that the engine size is only 1.4 liters, and the power is some 125 hp. I heard that there are specialists who raise engine power to 180 and 200 hp. though then the question arises about the reliability of the transmission and its ability to cope with increased power.
To date, the mileage is 13,600 km. and during all this time no problems were noticed. The operation of the gearbox, or rather the gear shift, is much more like it than on a classic automatic. So I'm 100% happy with my purchase. Time will tell how the DQ200 will behave in the future, I hope that up to 100,000 km, no problems will happen to it.
Reviews about DSG owners SEAT
Although this brand once again left our market, we could not help but include the reviews of the owners in our list.
SEAT Leon
The car chose between Skoda Octavia, Audi A3, SEAT Leon and Volkswagen Golf. I wanted a fast car with a bright appearance and a pleasant interior. Audi disappeared due to the high price, Golf due to the lack of a 1.8 liter engine, it is strange why the entire VAG line, except for this hatchback, is equipped with a 180 horsepower engine, but oh well. In the end, the choice was between Octavia and Lyon. The Czech liftback was much more practical due to the trunk, and the interior was much more spacious, but the appearance and design of the Seat bribed me, as a result of which my choice was on this particular brand.
Unfortunately, I didn’t know much about DSG on SEAT, and there isn’t too much information on the Internet, which is understandable. This brand is not particularly popular in Russia. But as I understand it, the gearbox and engine of the Leon are completely similar to those installed on the Octavia, so I thoroughly studied the forums of the owners of versions with a 180 horsepower engine and transmission. I was immediately pleased that there were very few negative reviews and there was no such volume of complaints as there was for the first generation Passat B7 with DSG.
Of course, I am afraid of a breakdown of the mechatronics and clutch, because. this is the most common problem, but so far the robot seems to be coping with its tasks with a bang. It is a pity, of course, that Leon is not equipped with the DQ250, which is more reliable and allows you to slightly increase power without fear of failure.
With the appearance on the automotive market of a new transmission from the Volkswagen auto concern and the LuK company - DSG-7, the first problems in its operation appeared.
DSG-7 or DQ200 according to the company's marking is a seven-speed manual transmission equipped with an automated control unit. In the Volkswagen automaker itself, it is called a robotic gearbox. DSG-7 is a younger version of the six-speed DSG6 and their main difference is that the DSG-6 clutch unit is in an oil bath, which significantly reduces overheating and friction of the shafts and gears. The oil volume in the DSG-6 is 4.6 liters versus 1.9 liters in the "dry" DSG-7. DSG boxes have three shafts and they are placed inside the box so that up to the third shaft, which is higher than the rest, the oil in the DSG-7 box can get in a meager amount. In highway traffic conditions, this would be enough, but in urban traffic jams, “dry” gears have a hard time. A top shaft bearing without lubrication will rust and break. According to service specialists, this is one of the main problems that owners of Volkswagen, Audi and Skoda cars equipped with DSG-7 turn to repair shops.
You shouldn't blame VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) that they released a completely unsuccessful transmission. All gearboxes that are on the market have problems, and with the number of cars of the automaker that is operated in Russia, the number of calls to the service due to their breakdown also becomes logical. Yet the design of the DSG-7 remains "raw". Or stayed?
Since in 2014, the auto giant announced a complete modernization of the DSG-7 and the correction of all existing problems. Along with this, the additional five-year warranty for cars manufactured after 2014 was also removed. In any case, we will learn about the technical condition of the updated DSG only at the beginning of 2016, when the standard two-year Volkswagen warranty in Russia runs out. At the moment, car owners of brand new VAG cars are repairing cars under warranty at dealers, and they are not particularly worried about what is wrong with VW's “wonder robot”. But after the warranty expires, they may have questions, since a complete replacement of the DSG-7 costs an average of 350-450 thousand rubles. Although it is worth hoping that Volkswagen this time really brought the box to mind. The reason for this modernization was not only the accusations of Russian car owners and the speech of a State Duma deputy about a complete ban on the operation of cars equipped with DSG-7. In 2013, VAG carried out an unprecedented recall of DSG-7 vehicles around the world. A total of 1.6 million vehicles were recalled for repair and software upgrades.
Classic DSG7 problems
We will try to consider the most common problems of a “dry” DSG. What you may encounter while using it.
- Vibrations of the car when shifting gears from first to second and vice versa. This is caused by the fact that the clutch discs close too abruptly. The effect is the same as if, on a conventional “mechanics”, the clutch is abruptly released when switching. The error occurs in this case in the mechatronics unit and is “treated” by flashing it or, in extreme cases, replacing it.
- Vibrations in 2nd gear when driving at low speeds. The problem is the lack of a torsional vibration damper on the second clutch. VAG engineers felt that it was enough to install the damper on the first clutch, as the busiest. It has a large friction area, while, like the second, the friction area is reduced. The very design of the DQ200 0AM box does not allow the installation of two torsional vibration dampers - due to the geometry of the box, the entire body will have to be redone. The company LUK, responsible for the creation of the DSG-7, released a clutch with a modified clutch material. Vibrations did decrease, but did not disappear. VAG is trying to fix the problem with a new software (software) update, but the mechatronics will not be able to solve the technical design problem. In any case, the “squabble on the second” will remain with the DSG-7 until the release of the new box.
- Knocks in the checkpoint when driving at low speed. The manufacturer's official explanation is that: “The gearbox contains a large number of densely packed parts. Under certain conditions, vibration of unloaded gears and gearbox parts may occur. Structurally, the amount of oil in this gearbox is relatively small, which contributes to a more intense transmission of sounds from the gearbox to the outside. These noises affect only the acoustic comfort, these sounds do not affect the performance of the gearbox and its resource and are not regarded as a defect. It turns out that you won’t be able to contact the service with this problem, so before buying during a test drive, decide for yourself whether this noise suits you or not.
- Jolts at the beginning of the movement and switching to D, S, M modes. Here the set of reasons is very large. A malfunction may lie both in the clutch unit, and in mechatronics, and in the engine-gearbox link. In any case, a car with involuntary shocks should be diagnosed in the service.
- Mechatronics failures. A number of problems are also called here, but it is usually associated with the software version and vehicle operation. Early models suffered from mechatronic failures caused by software bugs much more frequently. Now most of the problems have been eliminated by constantly updating the “brains” and the electronics behave more or less friendly, but it is not immune from operating errors. The DSG-7 differs from the DSG-6 in that it is placed on middle-class cars with lower requirements for the engine and speed, but based on a comfortable quiet ride. Any racing "chips", such as, for example, a quick start with the brake pressed, can ride on the DSG-6 - an oil bath saves it. For DSG-7, this can cause premature repair.
To sum up the problems described, they all lie in the complex technology of the box. VAG wanted to make the perfect gearbox for everyone and is now paying the price for being too hasty with the transmission upgrade year after year.
Volkswagen's official response or what to expect for car owners
Representatives of Volkswagen Russia did not stay away from the hype around the innovative transmission and commented on the situation with the DSG-7. According to them, since 2012-2013, the double clutch assembly, the mechatronics unit and the mechanical part of the gearbox have been redesigned. Those problems that arose before will remain scary tales for car owners of the new DSG-7. For the most part, according to representatives of VAG in Russia, breakdowns are associated with improper operation of cars with DQ200, including chip tuning of the control unit. VAG also decided to change the oil in the box from synthetic to mineral - at one time this was the reason for the global recall of cars with DSG-7. The replacement will also affect cars in Russia, but in our conditions, mineral oil in the transmission does not seem to be the best option.
In any case, the main thing in this statement was the conviction that the car should be serviced only in official repair services. The transmission device is too complicated to trust third-party masters. It is up to the car owner to decide here. Although it is worth considering that Volkswagen sells hundreds of thousands of cars in Russia and repair shops have long been familiar with all the problems of the DSG-7 and how to fix them. You can literally find a car service that is ready to repair or change any part of the transmission from the gear to the mechatronics at your fingertips. It is enough to look on the Internet. Yes, and you will also be offered quite a few ways to repair the DSG-7 with your own hands, but you need to have golden hands for this. Spare parts for the DSG are also not a luxury and it is unlikely that you will have to wait for the right lining within a month.
The difference between official and third-party services is primarily in price. The spread here is great - you can replace the entire DSG-7 for 300 thousand rubles and 450 thousand. The difference is serious and the majority of car owners decide to vote in rubles.
In conclusion, it is worth saying that the DSG-7 also has many advantages, otherwise cars equipped with a “German robot” would not be sold in such quantities. At the same time, car services are crammed with cars not only with the notorious DQ200, but also with torque converter machines, and CVTs, and the usual “mechanics”. There is no perfect transmission, and it's up to you to decide what is closer to your liking. Don't change your mind just because of online reviews.
